This transcript has been edited for clarity and checked against the available source transcript and recording. Filler, false starts, and obvious transcription errors have been corrected without changing the speaker’s meaning.
James: Hello, and welcome to Graduate Theory. On today’s episode, you’ll hear about transdisciplinarity, how music can add value in unconventional ways in consulting and other fields, and what it means to be part of a purpose-driven company. I’m really excited about today’s episode, and I hope you enjoy it.
Intro#
James: Hello and welcome to Graduate Theory. My guest today graduated from the University of Technology Sydney in 2014 with a Bachelor of Sound and Music Design. Since then, he’s worked at companies like Commonwealth Bank, Bain and Accenture. In 2019, he co-founded his company, Maslow. Maslow is a voice-enabled rehabilitation assistant for young people living with paralysis. It empowers young people to manage rehabilitation independently and is challenging the systemic norms in disability care.
Maslow has hundreds of users with disabilities registered across Australia and has therapists remotely managing clients in Australia. For this great work, my guest received the Foundation for Young Australians’ Young Social Pioneer of 2019 award for making an impact in the disability and accessibility space.
Please welcome to the show, Andrew.
How did Andrew Get into Consulting from Music#
James: Welcome to the show. You’re someone who’s had a really interesting career and is doing great work in the disability space. Before we dive into all that, I want to ask about your transition from university into the first few jobs of your career. You studied music at university and went into consulting, which is an unusual path. Was there a particular moment in that transition that led you from music into consulting?
Andrew: First of all, thanks for that really interesting intro. Hearing you call out some of the turning points refreshed my memory of experiences I may have slightly forgotten. To answer your question, I was studying music at university and looking at the intersection of music, technology and culture.
I really enjoyed making technology for music, whether for the stage, production or the studio, or to help bands promote and tour. It was something I enjoyed, dabbled in and approached with a sense of play.
Towards the end of my university degree, when I was in my final semester, I thought, “While I’m a student and at university, I might as well take advantage of the resources here.” I started signing up for whatever was on: problem-solving courses and leadership and communication workshops. If anything on the events calendar looked even remotely interesting, I signed up for it.
One day, I’d just been to the gym, so I was running around the university in trackie dacks and looking really scruffy. I was going to a workshop I’d applied for in the new UTS building—the one that looks like a cheese grater—which had just been built, showing my age. I didn’t know my way around and saw a sign on a door that said “Digital” something, so I thought it must be my room.
I opened the door thinking I was 15 minutes late and found no one else there. I thought, “I’m late, but this is strange. There’s no one here.” One guy wearing a suit stood at the front. He looked at me and said, “Mate, what are you doing here?”
I said, “I’m here for a workshop.” I didn’t know which workshop because I’d signed up for everything. He said, “Okay, no worries. Tell me a bit about yourself.” I replied, “My name is Andrew. I’m studying music, and I build technology.” We got chatting, and he told me I should sit down and join the workshop. I thought, “Of course; I signed up for it.”
Then I noticed name cards on the table, and mine wasn’t there. I sat down anyway. People began filing in wearing suits, button-up shirts and ties. I started to think I might be in the wrong workshop. They all sat down quietly, looking at me as if to ask, “What the hell is this guy doing here?”
Once everyone was seated, the facilitator asked, “Who here did not study commerce, business, engineering or economics?” I put my hand up. He asked what I studied, and when I said music, everybody in the room laughed. He then said, “Well, you all know why you’re here.” I thought, “I don’t know why I’m in this workshop. I don’t know what’s going on.”
He explained that we were there for a case interview for a strategy consulting role. I thought, “I’ve just walked into an interview I didn’t apply for and wasn’t accepted into.” Everybody else had gone through several screening interviews to get there; it was reasonably competitive.
He explained the interview format: we would receive a case question and use the subject-matter experts in the room to ask questions, diagnose the issue and solve the problem. The problem would differ from those familiar to people with economics, business or engineering degrees—the typical fields of study that tend to lead into consulting. The question was: “How can we help emerging musicians break above the clutter of the digital market to create a sustainable arts industry worldwide?”
After the whole group had laughed at me for studying music, I thought, “Who’s laughing now?” We spent 45 minutes interviewing subject-matter experts, then each pitched a solution based on the information we’d discovered.
Because I’d enjoyed working in the music industry and was enthusiastic about changes in audio culture, digital streaming services and the other things I cared about, I thrived in the interview. I enjoyed talking to the subject-matter experts. When it was time to pitch, I thought, “I’m just going to get this out of the way.” I was uncomfortable and anxious because everyone had laughed at me and I didn’t know what was going on.
I pitched a solution, talked about my background in the music industry and said, “All right, cool. I’m going now.” As I left, one of the interview facilitators chased me down and said, “Andrew, I have to introduce you to somebody.” He introduced me to the partner of the strategy practice who was heading up the media and entertainment division. They invited me to become a strategy consultant and help them sell to some of their new music-industry clients. It was a very serendipitous event, much like the first episode of Suits, if you’ve ever seen it.
That’s how I accidentally walked into the wrong room and became a consultant.
James: Wow. That is amazing and such a special story. How things turned out after that, getting you to where you are now, has been life-changing.
Andrew: One of the biggest things I will say is that, at the time, I didn’t know what was happening or where any of it would lead. I felt really uncomfortable about all these people in suits and ties from traditional career paths laughing at me because they didn’t think a musician could become a consultant. On the other side of that, though, it made sense. People supported me along the way and embraced those skills. It was all about being myself and embracing what I enjoyed doing.
James: Absolutely. Your story illustrates what you mean.
Music not seen as a traditional consulting degree#
James: You were laughed at because you were studying music. There’s definitely a stigma around some of the arts because people don’t see them as traditional careers. Yet, in my experience—and you’re a great example—there are people in the arts doing great things.
Having that diverse skill set and being able to approach problems in new ways is unique. It’s great to see that you can take skills that aren’t traditional for consulting roles and still have a positive impact.
What Artists are good at#
Andrew: Definitely. Artists are incredibly good at a few things that business innovators are seeking. They understand how to craft a highly emotive and engaging experience on a very minimal budget. Behind the scenes, it might be scrappy and essentially just an MVP, but the audience sees a beautiful, polished performance.
That’s the lean MVP approach, especially in entrepreneurship and innovation: build, test, break and iterate. Artists are fundamentally good at leaning into emotional connections with an audience and achieving them through consumer products. These are the mindsets business innovators are seeking, and artists have had them down pat for centuries.
How Andrew ended up in the disability space#
James: That’s really exciting. You transitioned into the corporate world and consulting. How did you then end up in disability support, where your startup now operates?
Andrew: The great thing about consulting is that you can dabble in many industries, become enough of a subject-matter expert and then move on to the next thing.
I was lucky enough to work in media and entertainment, but I also worked in social enterprise across Southeast Asia, doing strategy and product work for several social enterprises. I was also lucky enough to work on major healthcare systems in Australia, designing products and understanding the consumer experience. That allowed me to develop skills across social impact, healthcare and digital music.
The trigger that made us say, “We should start a business ourselves,” was an event involving a friend of my best friend and me. He was studying at university and training for a triathlon when he slipped, hit his head and suffered a traumatic brain injury. Afterwards, he spent nine months in a rehabilitation hospital, paralysed and having lost his memory.
Therapists taught him everything he would need to do when he returned home: pressure care, managing support workers, exercise physiology and training, changing a catheter, and managing his mobility. That’s a lot to take in when someone has suffered a brain injury, is paralysed and is going through a traumatic experience.
When he was discharged from the rehabilitation hospital, he and his family forgot much of what they’d learnt. That made it challenging to stay on top of his therapy programs and manage his team of support workers. Beyond the minimum care and rehabilitation they’d been taught, there was no time for the things that make you human, like returning to university or finding a job, because he spent so much time managing his physiological health. It made simply enjoying being human much harder. He was readmitted to hospital with infections, complications and other issues that could have been avoided.
My background in product and user experience, combined with my best friend’s background as a therapist, made us think there had to be a way to address some of the challenges our friend faced through technology. There had to be a way to improve access to information, because technology has always been amazing at helping people access information. There had to be a way to address care-team management because technology is also amazing at connecting and coordinating. And there had to be a way to use technology to help him access things remotely from home. Look at us right now: we’ve never met in person, yet we’re having a conversation online.
That was the spark that made us say, “This is worth solving.” We didn’t immediately start Maslow or decide to create a company simply because there was a challenge. We spent an entire year slowly testing the waters before I quit my consulting job. We connected with hundreds of young people with spinal cord injuries across Australia, from Perth to the Northern Territory and almost every major city.
We didn’t try to force a solution on anyone, put one in front of them or recommend anything. We simply listened. We wanted to understand whether the experiences of young people with spinal cord and traumatic brain injuries across Australia were similar to or different from our friend’s experience.
We listened, then co-designed and co-created what people asked for. Several themes were prevalent. People found it hard to stay on top of therapy programs from home. They were frustrated by having to educate support workers verbally every day. They wished for one platform where they could do all of this and remotely access their content, because they were tired of travelling to clinical appointments for basic needs.
Throughout 2019, we immersed ourselves in the community, researching and listening while prototyping and testing with the group. Before we even launched, we’d built a community that knew exactly what it wanted and what we were delivering, while we knew exactly what its setup was.
It wasn’t until March 2020 that we were forced to push something live. The community we were co-designing with already had difficulty accessing healthcare, managing support workers and finding digital solutions that therapists weren’t willing to provide. Then everyone was locked out of their clinics because of COVID.
Many people may not know that those with severe disabilities and paralysis were at the highest risk at the time and were among those with the most fear. It wasn’t like it was for you or me, where we could think, “This may not affect us that badly.” Someone living with respiratory issues saw COVID as something that could genuinely have a severe negative impact on their health and well-being at a young age.
The relationship changed from, “We’re prototyping this virtual solution with these people,” to them saying, “That prototype you’ve been developing with us? I could really use it now. I need remote access to my therapist and a way to manage my support workers’ activities around the COVID protections.” We were forced to push it live in March 2020, and things grew from there.
James: That’s another fascinating story. Like the earlier one, an event thrust you into a new world and brought about great things.
Andrew: I reflect on both events a lot. I don’t want it to sound as though a golden opportunity was presented at the time, because neither scenario made sense then. It’s only in hindsight that I can say how it all hangs together.
Even with Maslow, when we went out and did research in 2019, we didn’t know what we were doing, what we would build or even exactly which problem we were solving. I can talk about it now because I’ve gone through the experience and learnt from it, but back then we were making it up as we went and learning to be entrepreneurs.
We didn’t say, “We’re going to be startup founders,” and immediately possess the skills, capabilities, maturity and expectations. We simply had naivety and an intent to do it. The experience since then, and embracing what we’ve learnt, has enabled us to say, “This is why we did it. This is what we learnt, and this is what we needed to do.”
Noticing and Taking Opportunities#
James: Absolutely. One thing that comes through in both stories is that it’s one thing to have opportunities presented or thrust upon you, and another to act on and seize them.
Andrew: Absolutely. Even before that, it’s one thing simply to notice those opportunities.
In the first example, it may look as though I luckily turned up to the consulting case interview, but that isn’t really the case. I was panicking because I didn’t know what I would do after graduating, so I was frantically signing up for everything I could and turning up to see what happened.
Without that, the opportunity wouldn’t have presented itself, nor would I have had the skills to act on it. Had I not possessed the naivety to stay after realising I was in the wrong group, I couldn’t have seized it. It was a mixture of luck, naivety—which can be a great thing—and being able both to enjoy an opportunity’s discomfort and recognise it when it arose.
James: Definitely. I think that’s really cool. Your initiative comes through.
Passions and Identity#
Andrew: I want to point to another element. It can feel intangible when people tell you it’s important—laugh if you will—but that’s passion.
Passion has an interesting role in creating opportunities, and it manifests in logical, non-fluffy ways—not simply asking the universe to deliver. When you’re passionate about something, you take it on as part of your identity.
For me, that was music and technology, web design and some related interests. Because I’d taken those on as part of my identity, when I met someone and we talked about what we did or cared about, the conversation tended to steer towards music technology. I’d say, “I’m really interested in that.”
If you meet 100 people and they all remember you as the music-technology person, suddenly 100 people are your eyes and ears for opportunities that might suit you. They may meet someone with an opportunity, remember that Andrew was the music-technology person and introduce you to them. That’s a tangible way passion manifests itself.
It mattered when I walked into that room, met a stranger and felt scared, wearing trackie dacks and looking scruffy rather than a well-curated suit. When they asked who I was and what I did, I said, “I’m Andrew. I’m a musician, and I also make music technology.” Had I not presented that passion, I probably would have been booted out of the room.
James: I think that’s really cool. As you said, having and cultivating that passion can lead to interesting opportunities. You’ve had diverse experiences in music, consulting and now disability. You’re not a complete generalist, but how does that breadth help you see problems differently and create innovative solutions?
Transdisciplinarity#
Andrew: Definitely. There’s a field of thought and leadership that people describe as transdisciplinarity. It sounds buzzwordy when you say it aloud, as do “cross-functional collaboration” and the variations used in different industries. You have to ask what it actually means.
Something happens naturally across industries as people develop deep skill sets, whether scientific, mathematical or engineering. The deeper someone gets into their skill set in conventional fields, the less capable they tend to become of collaborating at that same depth with people from other disciplines. As a result, silos are built into industries.
Healthcare is a good example. Hospitals hire clinicians to run their businesses, technology and entire practices. They don’t hire digital-transformation experts. Especially before COVID, the people designing solutions in hospitals were clinicians, so those solutions were very clinically oriented. That’s great, but when the world shifted and everything had to become remote, the healthcare system suddenly needed to catch up.
The people able to guide and inform that transition had enough expertise in the clinical space and enough in the digital or another space to enable collaboration and get the most from both worlds.
For me, touching on many topics just deeply enough has enabled me to collaborate with a broad range of people, whether artists, technologists, clinicians or designers. It always takes several different skill sets to get something new off the ground. In terms of transdisciplinarity, the magical things in this world happen between disciplines and industries.
The value of my diverse experience is that I can quickly build a team, gel with everyone and help them gel with one another. I understand enough about how people work across industries and skill sets to create cohesive collaboration. I also understand how people think, what motivates them and how they solve problems.
To answer your question, being an expert generalist, touching on different things and having varied experience is quite unique because the output is unique. You can collaborate with a unique set of people and fundamentally create new things.
Range#
James: I don’t know if you’ve heard of or read the book Range by David Epstein. It explores specialists and generalists: who succeeds in different scenarios, where discoveries come from, and whether you should build your career as a specialist or generalist. He found that new creations and insights often come from people who look from one domain across others, rather than going extremely deep in a single domain. It sounds like that’s what you’ve found too.
Andrew: Absolutely. Even if you have diverse experience in two completely separate fields or change careers, some people think, “If I change careers, I’m losing all the specialised knowledge I have in one field. I’m going into something as the underdog and starting from zero.”
Others see a career change as bringing a type of thinking that’s completely new to an industry. That’s a competitive advantage and a platform, not a hindrance. For people with varied experience—not just at work but in sport, music, art, hobbies, religion, science or philosophy—think about how to use what you know as a strength to inform something that hasn’t been exposed to it before. Use that analogous experience, and suddenly diversity becomes a superpower rather than a hindrance.
James: I think that’s really cool. It’s something I try to do in my own life and would absolutely recommend. It doesn’t have to mean changing careers. It could be a side hustle in an unrelated field that interests you, or picking up a hobby unrelated to work, just to give you that contrast.
Purpose Driven Businesses#
James: Another idea that comes through with Maslow is the purpose-driven company. You’ve moved from the traditionally lucrative field of consulting into making the world better by creating a product that helps people on a personal level. What has your experience of this purpose-first approach been, and would you recommend it to more people?
Andrew: That relates to what we discussed earlier about passion. Individual passion attracts people and opportunities because others can understand and latch on to it. The same is true for a purpose-driven business. People often describe this in fluffy terms, but it manifests in very literal and logical ways. As a business leader, employee, customer or partner, you can come to the table and say, “I’m truly passionate about what this solves, how it solves it, and the outcome and vision we’re all working together to create.” For Maslow, that means making it as easy as possible for people with disabilities to manage their care and rehabilitation at home. That’s a fundamental purpose. It’s not just mine; it belongs to our audience and community.
It’s our employees’, partners’ and investors’ purpose. Everybody rallies around it, and everybody has helped shape it. I told you about the year we spent immersing ourselves in the lives of young people with severe spinal injuries. This is the purpose they want, and we’re on the journey with them.
When you speak about passion or purpose, the right employees are attracted to you. People want to collaborate because they’ve seen the problem before. The right investors are attracted to you because they understand its importance from a purely altruistic standpoint, not just a profitable one.
Purpose also makes design and strategic decisions easier because you have a central point to refer back to, rather than simply making a quick buck. It keeps your team and partners grounded and united, making tough conversations easier: when you need to compromise, you can return to whether a choice helps achieve the purpose.
That war cry or rallying cry is much louder and stronger than one from a purely for-profit company that doesn’t have as tangible an impact on people or communities. Every company develops a rationale for how it makes an impact, but there are different flavours and degrees of separation. When the impact is real and tangible, and you can speak about it and bring the right people to the table, you find motivated people who truly want to succeed and help.
Excitement for Purpose Driven companies#
James: Do you see companies like yours becoming more common, especially among younger people? Many are trying to leave the corporate world, and with everyone changing jobs and talk of a job exodus, people seem to be struggling to find meaning and purpose in their work. Is that something you’ve seen, and does it excite you?
Andrew: It does. This could become a very philosophical discussion, but there are many things in the world worth fixing. A mass exodus of people from corporations—the Great Resignation, or whatever you want to call it—doesn’t mean corporations lack purpose or guidance. It means people are moving towards the idea that “I want to tangibly see the grassroots impact of what I’m doing.”
The consumer market is also changing. People are saying, “I will make decisions about products based on whether they have a tangible impact on the world.” That will create an accelerating surge of impact-driven businesses, whether they address climate change, social dialogue or something else.
As that becomes normal and consumers start making decisions that support these companies, the entire ecosystem will enable purpose-driven businesses. We’ll end up in a world where people have a stronger voice. People won’t be in careers simply because a corporation offers them a reasonable salary and the hope of buying a house with a picket fence. Companies will exist that support employees to make an impact on the world.
The world will then change rapidly, giving us a better chance of addressing the major issues humanity faces, including climate change, misinformation and social divisiveness. Those are all good things, and they get me really excited.
I want to hear about more people stepping into purpose-driven business. Purpose and profit aren’t mutually exclusive. If there’s a genuine problem to solve and you’re passionate about it, there are probably thousands, if not millions, of others who want it solved as collaborators, customers, partners or investors.
If your war cry is loud enough, they’ll hear you and come to help. If anyone takes one thing away from this, let it be this: if you’re thinking about starting a purpose-driven business and don’t know what to do, good. Start. I didn’t know what I wanted to do or what the other side of the fence looked like. Nobody does. You can only find out by walking through the door. If it doesn’t work, that’s fine; you’ve probably learnt a lot and can take those analogous skills elsewhere. If it does work, you’ve created an impact and brought people together. That gets me very excited.
Companies and Founders that Inspire Andrew#
James: Are there any companies, founders, people in your network or others you respect that you see as great examples?
Andrew: In Australia, Hireup is a platform for hiring disability support workers. They’ve completely shifted how people think about hiring disability support.
Its leadership has made purpose-driven decisions from the start. Those decisions have attracted good teams, funders and partners, and created a good value proposition and market position. At times, they’ve taken the less profitable but more purposeful option.
I think it’s paid off in the long run, so kudos to Jordan O’Reilly and the Hireup team. The emergence of neobanks focused on impact investment is also positive. It shows how young people’s capital can be put to good use through impact investing rather than the more traditional investments superannuation funds might choose. Neomi, at neomi.io, is one of my favourites. The areas closest to my heart in Australia are the disability-technology landscape, of which we’re part, and the impact-lending landscape. I believe the latter is the way of the future and should fuel purpose-driven businesses.
James: I think that’s really cool. You get so excited about this space that it’s almost infectious, because you can see the good coming out of it. Anyone can look at it and think, “That’s something I want to be part of.” As you say, it’s purpose-driven business. I’m excited about what the future holds and what you’re going to achieve. It’s very exciting.
Dealing with Self-Doubt#
James: I have two more questions. The first is about self-doubt, a theme that has come through in many of my podcast episodes. We’ve already discussed examples: you’re sitting in the interview, you’re unsure what to do and perhaps really doubting yourself. This whole startup journey must also have brought plenty of self-development and growth. Have you had any major experiences of doubting yourself? Do you have a process for dealing with it?
Andrew: Self-doubt, imposter syndrome and fear of what’s on the other side will arise no matter where or who you are. If you take on an endeavour, that feeling is inevitable.
Your relationship with that feeling is what’s really important. Learning to become comfortable navigating ambiguity and leaning into the unknown or an uncomfortable space is essential. Overcoming it begins with noticing that it’s happening.
This draws on meditation or that line of thinking, but first and foremost, it’s important to know when you’re experiencing self-doubt and say, “That uncomfortable feeling causing me to question myself is just fear and self-doubt, and it’s going to happen.”
The second part is finding your cheerleaders, friends and trusted people who can help you build confidence and challenge the flawed logic behind that self-doubt. Sit with them and talk it through, because at the end of the day, you probably are good enough.
That’s why you’re even thinking about an opportunity. If you’re doubting yourself, you’ve been presented with an opportunity, and if you’ve been presented with it, you’re probably good enough to take it. You may fail. That’s also very true, and that’s okay. But if you don’t try, you’ll never have the option to succeed or fail.
There are a few elements. First, recognise when it’s happening and know it’s a natural feeling that means you’re leaning into the unknown. Know that you’re good enough because you’ve been presented with the opportunity. Lean on the people around you who support and motivate you, get out of your own head and recognise that you can’t know what the opportunity could become unless you lean into it. That feeling is going to happen.
James: That’s great advice. You’ve faced it, I’ve faced it, and I haven’t met anyone who hasn’t. It’s something you have to work through.
Andrew: It gets easier the more you do it. You recognise the pattern more readily and can say, “Okay, this is just a feeling.” You change your relationship with it.
Advice for Early Career#
James: I have one more question, which I ask all my guests. Given where you are in your career now, imagine you’ve just finished university and are about to start your first job. What advice would you give yourself after all these experiences?
Andrew: I would tell myself not to kick the can down the road. If you’re thinking about doing something, do it. I probably would have started Maslow a couple of years earlier. I still would have been scared, but I should have made the decision earlier.
This applies to many things. Without pointing to specific experiences, I can sum it up this way: whatever you’re thinking about, start it earlier. Further down the track, you’ll reflect and realise you wasted time waiting.
That’s okay, but there’s no harm in starting something new if that’s what you want. You’re either going to start it or you’re not. The two or four years a degree takes will pass anyway, so you might as well do it. You’ll continue progressing in your career and may become bored anyway, so you might as well start the new thing now. If you’re thinking about doing something, don’t wait.
James: I experienced it with this podcast: I wanted to start it for a year and a half before I finally did. One lesson is to listen to what’s inside and trust your gut.
That’s a recurring theme on the podcast: the feeling is showing you something, and you should go for it. Another idea is using mortality as motivation. It sounds morbid and strange, but it’s a useful thought exercise: “I have this feeling and want to do this thing. I may have self-doubt, but one day I’ll be old and look back on this exact time.”
Andrew: You’re going to die anyway.
Every year you put off doing something is a year you’ll never get back. Don’t be hard on yourself if you don’t act, but give it a shot.
James: That thought has given me a lot of perspective. Like you, getting out there, taking opportunities and squeezing the juice out of life is fantastic, and it’s great to see.
Connect with Andrew#
James: I think we’ll wrap up the interview there. Before we do, where can people learn more about what you do and connect with you?
Andrew: If you want to follow Maslow’s journey on Instagram, we tell customer stories and shed light on the hidden world of people living with disabilities, which much of the public doesn’t necessarily understand or experience. Our goal is to deconstruct that, break the stigma, normalise it and show that people living with disabilities are simply trying to live their lives too, just like anybody else. You can follow us on Instagram at Maslow for People.
If you’re a therapist, support worker, person living with a disability, caregiver or caregiver of an elderly parent who has support workers, you can go to maslow.io and sign up. The platform helps reconnect you, your family or loved ones with therapists, support workers and everything needed to manage care better.
James: Amazing. Thanks so much for your time today, Andrew.
Thank you for listening to that episode with Andrew Akib. Andrew is a great example of someone who took an unconventional university degree and applied it in unique ways, creating distinctive insights throughout his career. He also shared great thoughts on what it means to be part of a purpose-driven company.
My first takeaway was transdisciplinarity and the idea of becoming a generalist rather than a specialist. Books I’ve read, things I’ve seen and Andrew’s experience all show how applying skills in unconventional ways can lead to valuable insights and discoveries.
My second takeaway was the purpose-driven company. When you work for a large organisation, you can sometimes—but not always—feel disconnected from its purpose. Running something like Maslow, which stays so close to its purpose, is powerful.
It feels good to be part of a genuinely purpose-first company. My third takeaway was self-doubt and trusting your gut, a theme we’ve discussed several times on the podcast and which came up again today with Andrew. As he said, trusting your gut is important, and it’s something we can all pay attention to.
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