This transcript has been edited for clarity and checked against the available source transcript and recording. Filler, false starts, and obvious transcription errors have been corrected without changing the speaker’s meaning.
Intro#
James: Hello and welcome to Graduate Theory. Today is a very special episode. If you’ve been listening for a while, you’ll remember that at the end of every episode, I ask guests what advice they would give people starting their careers today. This episode is a compilation of that advice.
We’ve gone back through the archives and found the first half of the Graduate Theory episodes, from episode 1 to episode 24. I’ve found all the sections where guests give advice to someone who is about to finish university, has finished university or is starting their career.
It jumps around a fair bit, but I think there is some seriously good advice in this episode. If you haven’t already, please consider subscribing to the Graduate Theory newsletter. It’s the first link in the description. You’ll get an email straight to your inbox every week with a reminder of the Graduate Theory episode, as well as my thoughts and takeaways from it. Thanks again for listening, and please enjoy.
1 - Joe Wehbe#
James: The last question for you today, Joe, is this: if you were graduating from university again—or perhaps starting university; you can choose—what’s the one piece of advice you would give yourself?
Joe: The question we asked a lot around the book is what advice you’d give your 18-year-old self. I think I can say the same thing to both the version of me starting university and the version of me ending it: make the most of it; don’t settle for any less.
Even when leaving, whatever comes next, focus on what you have and make the most of whatever you can access and start with. At university, I didn’t make the most of it. I wish I could go back.
Not really, because I learnt a lot, and that made me more focused in life afterwards. Make the most of it. I think that’s it.
3 - Darren Fleming#
James: My last question, Darren, is for our audience of graduates. What’s one piece of advice you would give someone graduating from university this year?
Darren: Wear a mask and get vaccinated. As silly as that sounds, it’s actually a lot deeper. Since World War II, driven largely by the US, we’ve had the power of the individual: “My rights. I can do this. I’m going to be the top,” and so on. COVID and climate change are existential crises that affect the whole world.
I can put on a mask, get vaccinated and go all hippie and not drive anything, but I’m not going to stop COVID or climate change by myself. We need to work together as a society. People say, “Lockdowns are bad. It’s not affecting me. My business has gone down the toilet. You’ve got to change.” They’re missing the tectonic shift happening in society. We’re moving from an individualistic society back to a collectivist society, where we rely on each other.
There’s a traditional Ethiopian saying: “If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.” That’s where we are now. The mask and vaccination are metaphors for what we need to do. This is about coming together.
The knowledge you have is great. It’s common, but it’s great. The experience you have from the life that brought you here today is uncommon and needs to be shared, as does your knowledge. Get vaccinated, if for no other reason than that we all need to get there.
4 - Scott McKeon#
James: I’ve got one last question, Scott. Given all your experiences through university and where you are now with your start-up, what one lesson would you give yourself if you were starting university again at the beginning of next year?
Scott: Join The Constant Student. Honestly, without a doubt, that’s what I would say. That’s why Liam, Joey and I are working on it and why it exists. There’s so much you can learn right now. If university is being delivered online, imagine learning on the internet without the university constraint of subjects and coursework.
How about learning within 12 weeks or one or two years? In one year, you could not only learn a year’s worth of information and content, but also learn and earn. You could earn money from the things you’re learning and level up in multiple ways. Again, it’s the ecosystem.
The ecosystem is your platform to build on. All the things I benefited from are consolidated within The Constant Student, and it will continue to grow over the years. Get involved and ask questions. Rather than looking for answers to be given to you, think of yourself as an adventurer. You have to discover, look around, determine things, ask questions and try things. People are always happy to help, guide you along the path and let you try things. If you have that mentality, it doesn’t really matter what you do. Because you’re doing things, you’ll find the right answer.
5 - Oscar Trimboli#
James: Oscar, I’ve got one last question for you today. We’ve spoken about graduates a little, but you’ve had such a fantastic career and worked with so many organisations. If you were graduating this year and starting your career next year, what advice would you give yourself?
Oscar: I would give myself two pieces of advice. First, I would give back to my first-year lecturers at university. I would ask, “Can I give a guest lecture based on my workplace experience and how I’ve applied what I learnt from you?” It would be a thank you to my lecturers.
Second, I would take more time to listen to executive assistants and administrators in the organisation. They are the glue that holds the organisation together. They make everything run smoothly and, if you’re in their bad books, they can slow everything down for you as well. Whether it’s a receptionist, an executive assistant or any kind of administrator, these people are the glue that holds the organisation together. I’d invest more time in getting to know them.
6 - Ishan Galapathy#
James: In a similar vein, I have one question that I ask all the guests. Let’s say Ishan is back in 1998, finishing university and about to start his career. What advice would you give yourself?
Ishan: Funny you should ask that, James. I went to the University of New South Wales, as you said in the introduction, and I was living in Randwick. I distinctly remember the first day I arrived in Australia and in Randwick. On that Saturday afternoon in February 1994, I walked along Belmore Road, I think, the main street in Randwick.
I had all these questions going through my head, from simple things like, “How do I get to uni? Where’s my faculty? How do I find it?” all the way to, “What will my first job be? Who will I marry? Where will I live?”
Recently, I had the pleasure of helping my niece, who is studying engineering at the same faculty, settle into her apartment. My wife and I helped her rent a flat, move in and set up. That evening, I had to grab something to eat. We all know the area like the backs of our hands, so I quickly rushed to Belmore Road to find a cafe.
In that moment, I could feel the Ishan who was on that road in 1994. It was as if I were watching a movie of myself in the third person, walking the road for the first time, looking into the windows and feeling all the questions I had then. I wanted to tell that Ishan, “It’s going to be okay. It’s going to be an enjoyable ride.” I saw myself telling the 20-year-old version of me that.
At the same time, I saw the 70-year-old Ishan coming to tell the forty-something-year-old Ishan, “You’ve got questions now too. Where to next? Will I be able to make the difference I want to? Is the world going to be okay? Will we travel again?” I heard the voice of the 70-year-old Ishan saying, “It’s going to be okay, and it’s going to be an enjoyable ride.”
7 - Lidia Ranieri#
James: I’ve got one last question for you today, Lidia, and it’s one I ask every guest. If you were graduating from university again and starting in the workforce this year, what advice would you give yourself?
Lidia: You need to take the pressure off yourself and let go of any expectation that you should have an answer today about what you need to do. You will probably start out doing one thing and find yourself doing something completely different 15 or 20 years down the track. You don’t have to have it all figured out.
It’s also important to understand your true nature. Some people pursue the idea, “I’m just going to do what feels right and what I’m interested in,” and that’s a great place to start. Others are more strategic: “I’m going over here because these are leading fields in the economy and they pay well.”
Wherever you’re being led in your thinking process indicates what you value and what’s important to you, so you need to listen to that. As long as you’re not doing things only because you think you’ll get some financial reward, follow what your inner voice is telling you to do. It will lead to something else, which leads to something else, which leads to something else.
There is no wrong turn, because you’re accumulating knowledge and experience. The wrong turn is doing something that has no interest or appeal, doesn’t light you up and doesn’t stimulate you in any way. That’s your wrong turn, and you need to think about doing something else.
I took that wrong turn very quickly in my career. My first job out of university was at a law firm, and I thought I would pursue a career in law. Within three months, I was going home with a dead feeling. I knew, “I can’t do this.” When I told friends and family I was aborting that mission, they thought I was absolutely mad: “You’ve finished the law degree and got a great job with a great firm. You can’t do that.” I said, “No, I definitely am. That is not the right direction for me.”
I went home and asked myself, “If I don’t want the partner’s job—not in any Machiavellian sense, but in an aspirational context—then what have I got to aim for here?” The process and steps didn’t make sense to me, so I needed to find something else. The differentiator for me was the dynamism, the difference every day and the unscripted way of working. That didn’t exist in that role, but it did in what I went on to do.
Did it really have to be stockbroking? No. It could have been anything that allowed me to have that unscripted, more dynamic way of working, almost like working from a blank whiteboard.
8 - Andrew Akib#
James: That’s really cool. I’ve got one more question, which I ask all my guests. Given where you are in your career now, imagine you’ve just finished university and are about to start your first job. What advice would you give yourself after all these experiences?
Andrew: I would tell myself not to kick the things I’m considering down the road. If you’re thinking about doing something, do it. I probably would have started Maslow a couple of years earlier.
Not that I wouldn’t have been scared, but I should have decided earlier. Without pointing to specific experiences, I can sum it up this way: whatever you’re thinking about, start it earlier. Further down the track, you’ll reflect and realise you wasted time waiting.
That’s okay, but there’s no harm in starting something new if that’s what you want. The two or four years a degree takes will pass anyway, so you might as well do it. You’ll continue progressing in your career and may become bored anyway. You might as well start the new thing now. If you’re thinking about doing something, don’t wait.
9 - Aiden and Eric#
James: What advice would you give someone starting their first job? It could be about mental health, which is obviously important, or anything you would have told yourself when you started your first job. Maybe we’ll start with Aiden.
Aiden: Going back to my conversation about start-ups and corporates, I’d say to take the time to research all the options available to you. If it makes sense, join a start-up or, even better, start one. You’re young, you’ve got time and it might work out really well for you.
The second thing, more specifically to do with mental health, is to make sure you’re taking the time to preserve your own mental health. One of the best ways to do that is to set boundaries. If you think work is too much, set a clear boundary and say, “This is overstepping the bounds I’m comfortable with, so I’m not going to do it.” Communicate your boundaries clearly to the people around you as well, so they know what you can and can’t do, and go from there.
The third piece of advice is more general. When you start a new job as a graduate, find out who will be on your team and take every single person out for coffee once. Make that a goal in the first month. I don’t care how many people there are—it could be five, 10 or 20. It might be a bit expensive, but take every one of them out for coffee and get to know them. Ask what makes them tick, what their work experience is and what specifically they do at work.
You’ll tend to find that, A, they’re grateful because who doesn’t love free coffee? And, B, they get to know you on a personal level. Because of that, it’s much easier to get to grips with the team and the work, and you’ll form genuine connections within the first month. In contrast, many people who tend to be quite introverted don’t talk to anyone for a few weeks. You just need to break out of your shell a little to do that.
James: Eric, what about you? Any advice you would give?
Eric: When I was close to graduating, I had a mentor whom I’d sought out. I went to a speech of his, and we started meeting regularly. He gave me some advice that took me two years to act on: build something. Create a visible identity, content or something you can be proud of outside your role, whatever it happens to be.
That does a lot of things. It gives you confidence, requires you to develop the skills needed to build whatever you want to build and makes you visible. It’s something we can now point to. We both have our own online identities that speak for us, and that’s something we go into in the book as well.
If I’d started earlier, it would be so much more valuable. That’s definitely something I would tell anyone who’s early in their career or still at uni: build something you can point to and say, “I built that. It’s a demonstration of what I can do.”
Aiden: To add to that, James, you’ve pretty much done it. You’ve hit the nail on the head with Graduate Theory. There you go: a shining example. That’s a great tip, Eric.
James: Eric, what you’re saying about building your personal brand is so important, especially today, when you can have things on the internet that let people see what you’re about and what you’ve created without having to meet or spend time with you.
Aiden, it’s also great advice to connect with your team and even the wider organisation, making networking something you do proactively and creating as much of a network as you can, especially when you’re early in your career.
Eric: If I could add to what Aiden was saying, it’s important to acknowledge the caveats that come with setting boundaries, especially when you’re starting out and want to be high-achieving. You want to make a good impression, as we said before, and it can be hard to say no or know how to say it.
That’s a difficult thing to navigate, so you take a lot on. But the first few years of your career, perhaps your twenties, are when you get to test your bandwidth and see how much work you can do and take on before you feel yourself starting to burn out. Then you stay in that range.
10 - James Fricker#
Joe: What is one tip you would give to new graduates? I believe that’s your final question, but what’s one tip you would give to new graduates today?
James: The main thing is to be intentional about what you’re doing. That’s so important. Let’s say you look forward one year: what would make this a successful year for you, and what things are you going to do this year that would be good? Even when it comes to networking, be intentional about who you’re networking with and make that something you participate in.
Life is an adventure, so you’ve got to go out and make stuff yourself. Coming back to what we were talking about before, no one’s going to make your experience great for you. No one’s going to sit there and say, “This is the perfect opportunity for you. Here you go.” You have to create that stuff yourself and meet the people you want to meet. They’re not going to come to you.
You’ve got to seek the opportunities you want because no one’s going to bring them to you. Take life with both hands, embrace the world and seek things yourself. That’s the lesson I try to apply, and it would be my lesson to a new graduate as well.
Life’s an adventure and a fantastic journey, but you’ve got to get in there, get in the arena and make the most of it. Take life with both hands. That’s fundamental not only during your graduate experience, but throughout your entire life. Tackle stuff head-on and get involved. Don’t sit on the sidelines mocking or watching people who are doing cool stuff; get in there, meet people, participate and do cool stuff yourself. That’s something I’ve grown into doing this year, and I’d recommend it to everyone.
11 - Haynes D’Souza#
James: I’ve got one last question for you, Haynes. We’ve covered so much in this conversation, but I want to ask the question I ask all the guests. If you were graduating and about to start your grad role next year, what advice, or one piece of advice, would you give yourself?
Haynes: I’d tell myself that it’s important to keep my personal interests and hobbies and not lose them when going into a grad role.
The process of getting a grad job is well documented, and there are enough resources out there. What we don’t talk about is the importance of keeping your personality and hobbies as you join a big company. I’ve seen this so many times: you go through university with all these hobbies, interests and passions, then enter the workforce and it becomes all-consuming.
It’s nine-to-five, but not really nine-to-five. It depends on your role and company, but you’ll be working long hours. Sometimes you’ll work on weekends and miss birthdays and dinners. Looking back, my view is that you want to keep your passions, interests and hobbies with you for as long as you can.
Don’t let your work life take over your whole life, because it’s easy to do. There is always work; there will always be work. But if you’re into sport, the gym, dancing, teaching or mentoring, or have a business—whatever gives you joy and satisfaction—you need to keep that, because there will be times when work isn’t great.
Whether you’ve had a tough week or you’re really stressed, you rely on your personal hobbies and interests to pick you up. For a lot of people, it’s their relationship with their partner, their faith or working out at the gym. The crazier work gets, the more important those parts of your life become in keeping you grounded and sane.
If your work becomes all-encompassing and there’s nothing else, you’ll burn out very quickly. You’ll also look back and realise that all you’ve done is work and you’ve got nothing else to show for it. My advice for all these optimistic 21-year-old grads is: keep your hobbies, interests and passions.
Have work fit around those, rather than making it the only thing you have in life. It also makes you much more interesting and knowledgeable. As you become more senior, relationships become super important in the workplace.
You’ll draw on those experiences—travelling, having a business or working out—to build workplace relationships as you become more senior. That’s something I’d recommend.
12 - Adam Ashton#
James: To finish, Adam, we’ve spoken about your grad experience and the podcast. What advice would you give to graduates listening who might be in their first year in the workplace, knowing everything you know and all the experiences you’ve had?
Adam Ashton: Before we started, I had three things in mind, but I’m going to change them. Maybe, in a year or two, we’ll have to do a second episode and I’ll give the other three I was going to give—although maybe they’ll have changed by then. I’m going to combine the first answer I gave with the last one about the whole grad experience.
The first time, I saw it as a game and competition. I thought I was in it, so I had to do it and beat everybody else. It was the path everyone was taking, so I thought, “I’m going to jump on this path and try to do it better than everybody else, because that’s what everybody does.” That was the wrong approach.
The right approach is the “want to” approach we spoke about with reading. If you genuinely want to do it, are curious about it and see the benefits—things you can learn and apply to your work, career, business, relationships or friendships—you’re going to enjoy reading.
If I’d flipped my perspective on work and seen it as something I wanted to do, where I could develop skills, learn new things, build a reputation or brand, and build a network, it would have been a much better experience. If I were a grad now, I’m sure I’d be so much better than I was five years ago.
My advice isn’t to quit your grad job and start a business, or whatever you might be thinking. It’s to realise you can do both. You can have a full-time job plus stuff on the side; they aren’t competing and can complement each other. I should have placed more value on the grad experience, rather than dismissing it as, “I’m doing all this stuff on the side, so this stuff is less important.”
14 - Ingrid Messner#
James: I’ve got one last question for you today, Ingrid, and it’s about people starting their careers. What advice would you give young people starting their careers in 2022?
Ingrid: I feel for you, starting your career in 2022 given what’s happening. It could actually be an advantage, but starting a career is usually a rite-of-passage point, before which you would have done certain things that haven’t happened because of COVID.
It might be good to find an area where you can focus on developing yourself and your self-awareness. You could do that through meditation, journalling, yoga or conversations with other people, so you become increasingly aware of who you are and what you want.
In 2022, and most likely next year as well, you’ll enter a world where everything is uncertain and complex. It’s challenging to say, “This is my vision or long-term goal.” It might be enough to say, “I would like to learn these five things in the next year. These are my passions, and this is my purpose. How do I bring them together and find the right organisation in which to work in this area?”
During the year, take it step by step and check whether it is still what you want. Other people might push you into something you didn’t see coming at first, but which sneaks in over time, and you can lose a little of yourself. While you’re learning about yourself, put in regular checkpoints, perhaps every month or quarter, when you ask, “Is this really what I want, and what’s the next step?” Take it in shorter bursts.
Some people finishing now may have a long-term vision and goal, which is great as long as they can hold it loosely and accept that they might not get there in a straight line. Hold the goal like a beacon or lighthouse you can follow, while accepting that you may take many detours. On a detour, you may notice, “Actually, this is much better.” At a checkpoint, you may realise you know enough about yourself to have the courage to change your goal, and that is fine. Long-term visions and goals are good, but only if you hold them lightly.
A few people have a fixed vision and are brilliant at pursuing it. For the majority, I think it’s better for their emotional and mental health to accept that it’s okay to change and not know. You can admit that you don’t know, take a break and explore what’s around you. Decide on something, try it as an experiment, learn from it and take the next step. You can’t possibly know everything, and that’s okay.
15 - Dan Brockwell#
James: I have one more question. People are graduating and starting jobs in 2022. What advice would you give someone starting their career this year?
Dan: Regardless of whether they enter a start-up or corporation, I would say: optimise for learning. By that I mean the learning you want, not simply accepting your company’s structured program. Identify what you want to learn and ask how you can learn it as quickly as possible. How can you practise, teach and engage with it? Perhaps you want to become an excellent public speaker, salesperson or developer. Be intentional about how you spend your time—not every second of the day, because you need breaks, but at work and on side projects. Ask what you are learning and how quickly, and create a clear framework and plan.
The other piece is to find people who care about similar things. That begins with an ongoing question: what problems would you like to work on ten or more years into your career? Perhaps it is climate change, nuclear warfare or artificial intelligence. There are many fascinating areas, and exploring them takes time and reading. One of the best things you can do is talk to other people, because co-learning is beautiful.
Find capable people with good values who care about similar problems and are doing something about them. Learn from them and teach one another. Looking back at university, I still have friends who followed very different paths: cryptocurrency, law, video-game design and PhDs. The common threads are a strong core of values, curiosity and intentionality. Find people with whom you resonate, because those around you will have an outsized impact on how your career progresses.
One more thing: start creating content now. Find what you care about and make a newsletter, TikTok videos, social-media posts, art or anything else. The format doesn’t matter. Creating content will help you find people who care about similar things, and that will be a superpower for years to come.
16 - Michael Gill#
James: I’ve got one final question for Gilly. Much of this podcast is about graduates and people starting their careers. What advice would you give someone entering the workforce in 2022?
Michael: James, when do you start your career?
James: In my mind, it’s when you get your first full-time job.
Michael: Does your tertiary education have nothing to do with your career?
James: I think it does. It definitely does.
Michael: So what is your question?
James: How about advice for entering the workforce?
Michael: Are you familiar with 18 and Lost, Peter? James, I think you are. It was written by a group of students and asked what they knew at 26 or 27 that they wished they had known at 18. The knowledge, experience, values and skills you bring to choosing a university course are far less developed than they are at 26, after one of the most formative periods of your life.
The first lesson, James, is that keeping an open mind and an open heart is more than a fashionable phrase; it is one of life’s great survival skills. You haven’t wasted your school or tertiary education, but remain open-minded about how you will use it throughout your life. Be prepared to extend yourself without guilt, remorse or shame. If you’re tempted to think, “I’ve made a mistake,” remember that you haven’t: like me in first-year law, you’re learning.
Begin to understand what ignites your passion, where your light comes from and what feels authentically you. Do it for yourself rather than an employer, your parents or other people who have expectations of you. Learn to distinguish your own feelings from the bombardment of social media and other material that pushes you in a particular direction. Somewhere along the way, your inner voice may say, “I’m not quite sure about that.”
I tell anyone who will listen that we have three important ways of knowing: head, heart and gut. Keep them in balance and listen to all three. Then walk down life’s path understanding that it is a process and a journey, not merely a destination. It’s a cliché, but stay in the present. It’s fine to say, “In five years, I’d like to be a senior associate at DLA Piper,” but it shouldn’t preoccupy you completely.
I know a lovely guy my age, a retired land surveyor who is Jewish. When people in our presence start talking about planning, Danny always says, “If you want to hear God laugh, plan.” I love it. Welcome the surprises and embrace them. You may think, “I didn’t expect that. What a gift. How did I meet somebody at a nightclub at 11:30 in the evening who can contribute to my curiosity about my career or something else?” Where does this stuff come from?
Life is more than a single career. It is about activating all your unique gifts and leaving none on the shelf. That is a lot to digest, but I can add one more practical point. In business circumstances involving clients, be generous—not to build a reputation, but because people respond to generosity. We all know how we feel about people who are genuinely generous: they aren’t looking for anything in return, but simply want to do something for us. That activates something in us, just as it does in others. Cynics may ask, “Why did they do that? What’s in it for them?” We should rise above that because we understand the value of unconditional generosity.
Generosity has the same effect in personal relationships. Early in a relationship, you may do something small without realising how much it means: perhaps you tidy the kitchen while waiting to take somebody out, instead of sitting and watching one of Adelaide’s football teams on television. Whole-of-life skills, business skills, professional skills and personal skills are the same. You don’t become one person when you put on a suit, another in a basketball uniform and a third when you change clothes again. These are life skills; we don’t put on different outfits for them.
17 - Aaron Ngan#
James: What advice or key principles would you give people making the transition into their first full-time role?
Aaron: The number one piece of advice I’d give is to share what you’re up to. Share it with your family, friends and network. Tell people, “This is what I want to do. This is the type of work and what excites me about it.” Share that with as many people as possible, and things will happen. People will ask, “Have you heard about this job or volunteering opportunity? Have you thought about joining this hackathon? Have you seen this?” People on the same journey might say, “I’m also doing this. Let’s catch up, connect and collaborate.” You might learn from or contribute to them.
When sharing what you’re doing and setting out to accomplish early in your career, you could say, “I really want to be an amazing product manager or systems engineer. I really want to be an amazing junior HR manager.” You can start to understand what excites you. It doesn’t have to be a huge aspirational thing like, “I’m joining Tesla to create the next powered smart-home battery motorcycle,” or whatever it is.
It doesn’t have to be something incredible that’s going to Mars. In your early-stage career, you could say, “I’m committed to discovering the world of finance so I can make a difference to everyday people who use Company X’s services.” As you share and explore that, two things will happen. You’ll deepen your awareness of what you actually want to do.
The more conversations you have and the more you explain it to people who say, “That’s interesting. Tell me about that,” the deeper and more real it becomes for you. Your environment also starts to recognise, “James is the person who does that podcast.”
If someone approaches me, of course I’m going to recommend him. It makes sense, because sharing what you’re up to is the number one thing that influences your environment. It could be a post or a conversation: “What have you been doing? What have you been up to?”
“How’s it going?” in Australia is the equivalent of saying, “Hello, but please don’t tell me how you’re actually feeling or what you’re doing.” The standard response is, “Nothing much. How about you?” But when you’re asked what you’ve been up to, you can actually talk about it.
You can say, “I recorded a podcast this week. The guest flipped it on me and started asking me questions, which was pretty cool. From that, I’m going to think about how I can create more value for people, because I’m committed to ensuring Graduate Theory’s listeners and the community we’re building have the best possible resources, preparation, support and guidance to take action and move their careers to the next step. That’s what I’ve been doing this weekend.”
I just made that up for you as an example. Someone will say, “Tell me about that,” and then it builds. Share what you’re up to and what you’re about.
18 - Warwick Donaldson#
James: I’ve got one more question, which I ask all the guests: what advice would you give someone starting their career in 2022?
Warwick: Build your network. It may seem hard and daunting at the start—and it is—but it’s a marathon, not a race. There are plenty of beautiful, amazing people out there who want to talk to you and share their experiences with you. Don’t be afraid to ask them. The worst they can say is no. Literally, that’s the worst they can say. The best they can say is, “Hell yeah, let’s go and have a coffee,” and then who knows what will happen? It’s an asymmetric risk, and it’s an amazing thing. You really should be doing that.
I understand that not everyone is an extrovert, so it’s more difficult for some than it is for others, but try to fight it or find ways that work for you. Maybe it’s online; maybe it’s pinging someone and asking questions. It doesn’t always have to be face-to-face. Face-to-face is great for building relationships, but there are other ways. There’s always another way to solve a problem, so try to innovate, do some reading and figure it out.
Those networks and relationships are what will hold you strong throughout your career and your life. They’re something your job doesn’t own. When you leave, you take them with you. They become some of your capital that you can use to improve your life, improve your performance in your role and simply have a nicer life. It’s really good.
19 - Penny Talalak#
James: I’ve got one more question, Penny, which I ask all guests. If you were finishing uni and starting your career or first job again this year, what advice would you give yourself?
Penny: That’s a hard one because I love my job and I’m doing really well. If I had to go back and start over, I’d panic because the competition is much higher. COVID put so many people out of jobs, and there are so many great designers. If I didn’t get a job offer, going through applications and graduate programs again would be exhausting.
I definitely wouldn’t apply for a graduate program. I’m done with that. I’d probably look for something more entry-level. Even though the benchmark is so high, I’d probably start a business. If I were starting my career again, I’d start a business and stop applying. I’d still apply, but I wouldn’t be upset if I didn’t get a job because I’d have my own thing too.
James: That’s cool. You’ve shown there are plenty of opportunities for side hustles and extra things to do if you look for them and are interested in what problems need solving in the world. That’s great advice. We’re in the period when people are applying for graduate roles that start next year, so it’s also very timely.
Penny: It’s stressful for them. I never want to go through it again. Job applications are way more stressful than a break-up. Rejection from an application is more stressful than a guy rejecting you. It hurts. Every day, you check your email and see that you didn’t get a job. Your life sucks.
You’re surrounded by people making money and flashing their suits in Barangaroo. I never got to experience that because I didn’t work in Barangaroo. But creating a job for yourself will help you get a job, and a lot of people don’t realise that.
James: That’s great advice. I’d recommend doing side hustles to anyone. If you pay attention to the world’s problems and help people solve them, you’ll be setting yourself up in the right way.
Penny: Also, know people. If I went back, I wish I’d known more people. Even though I know a lot of people, I want to know more smart, talented people within my circle. You need people like that in your life.
20 - Adam Geha#
James: I’ve got one last question for you, Adam, just to finish off. A lot of the listeners here are younger. They’re perhaps starting their careers or in the first few years of their careers. Thinking back to your own experience at that time, is there any advice or any lessons you would give yourself if you were in that position again?
Adam: Dream big. Be bold. It takes just as much effort to achieve big goals as it does small ones, so you might as well dream big. Make sure you believe in yourself. I’m going to write a series of microblogs on self-belief because it’s becoming apparent to me that a number of people beginning the entrepreneurial journey just need to increase their self-belief.
Self-belief means that, no matter what happens or what the task or challenge is, you’re equal to and up to the task. This type of self-worth and self-belief is absolutely indispensable to success. Then I would say: go out and find a mentor or two. I have two or three at any given time, and I mentor about six or seven because I believe the world is a big circle.
When you’re receiving, you need to give. Then the universe keeps giving you more and more mentors if you’re mentoring others. I would definitely say: believe in yourself, dream big and surround yourself with one or two wise mentors. Go for walks in the park with them, put the problems of the week in front of them and ask what they think you should do.
If you do that often enough, you’ll gain a lot of wisdom.
21 - Nimarta Verma#
James: I’ve got one last question for you, Nimarta, which I ask all the guests. Part of Graduate Theory is career advice and considering how young people can grow their careers. We’ve had some great advice from you tonight, but what’s some advice you would give young people starting their careers today?
Nimarta: The biggest thing is that it’s not life and death. It’s not the end of the world. The career you’re in now doesn’t have to be the career you remain in for the rest of your life. You can change your mind 2,000 times, switch industries and careers, or be 10 years into a career and decide, “I’m really bored with that. I’m going to do a different degree and take a different route.”
I see a lot of stress among 18-, 19- and 20-year-olds who are trying to map out the rest of their lives. You can’t do that, and you don’t need to know what you’ll be doing for the rest of your life. You just need to know what the next thing is, then do it. If it fulfils you and you love it, keep at it. If it doesn’t, don’t settle. Step back and ask what else you should be doing. Don’t be afraid to change or change your mind.
22 - Josh Farr#
James: I know we’re out of time, but we’ll try to squeeze in one question I ask all the guests: what’s some advice you’d give yourself if you were restarting your career at the start of this year?
Josh: What I just described would probably be my answer: think about the next five years and whom you want to help. If you’re lost, try to answer this question.
I’m sure this isn’t original, but the point of a career is to end unnecessary suffering. If you don’t know what to do, find someone who is struggling or suffering that shouldn’t exist—a resourcefulness problem rather than a resource problem. Before recording, I mentioned booking an Airbnb today. Its home page asked whether users could help house 200,000 Ukrainian refugees. There are obviously more refugees, but that was the displayed figure.
People with vacant Airbnb properties around the world could say, “I can house a family for two weeks. I can forgo two weeks of Airbnb income,” or perhaps offer accommodation for two months or two years.
It’s a small sacrifice that won’t cause their own family to starve. Many listeners won’t have a spare property, but they may have a free weekend, a few hours or $50 each month to donate. My advice to my younger self would be to find a problem you care about.
Find suffering—strange as that sounds—with leverage: it needn’t happen, a solution exists, and great people or organisations are working on it. Get involved and change your proximity. Proximity changed everything for me.
The hardest advice I’d give my younger self is to spend time somewhere with real problems. Those problems can exist in your neighbourhood, including domestic abuse and many others. You shouldn’t simply knock on a neighbour’s door and ask whether suffering is occurring. Connect with organisations addressing problems locally, or go somewhere where the environment confronts you with them.
I needed the shock of recognising that real problems existed and that I could help. It wasn’t pleasant, but it was practical. The gap between what I thought I wanted and what I needed became apparent. Go somewhere with a genuine challenge and be around people solving it.
Had I only witnessed the crisis without seeing anyone respond, it would have been deeply depressing. At the refugee crossing, however, I saw local families and bakers with almost nothing give away everything. They closed businesses and gave all their bread to refugees they didn’t know, from other countries and religions.
Some of their religions blatantly said these people were the enemy, yet the locals said, “Yeah, but we’re going to give our entire lives to helping them.” I thought, “That’s religion. That’s what it’s about.” Being around such selfless, generous people changed my perspective.
That’s the message I would give my younger self.
23 - Josh Reyes#
James: I’ve got one more question about your career. Do you have any advice for graduates starting work this year as they enter a world of crypto, remote work and other emerging trends?
Josh: I’ll strongly advocate for crypto. I think it is very much the future. The amount of talent rushing into the industry is unfathomable. I left a full-time Web2 job just over a year ago, and now I’m deeply involved in working, hiring and experimenting in this industry.
When Marcus and I started the company, we said this might be our last chance to arrive early and help define our vision for the industry. The same principle applied when I joined an early-stage start-up.
I had strong beliefs about what work and company culture should be like, based on reading books and talking to friends. I still have strong beliefs about work, as well as about what the future of Web3, crypto and the internet should be.
If you have values and beliefs that you want to apply to this industry, the idea may sound crazy, but I think the next three to five years may be the last period when you can make an impact and express those values at a scale that could affect millions or billions of people.
24 - Mel Kettle#
James: That leads to my last question, which you’ve partly answered. I ask every guest: what advice would you give someone just starting their career? Given all you know now, if you could wind back the clock and start again, what advice would you give yourself?
Mel: Listen to your instincts, because they’re very rarely wrong. That would be my number one piece of advice. If your gut is saying, “This isn’t quite right,” ask questions and listen to it.
James: That’s important. You’ve got the mind and the heart, and both are powerful. You have to listen to them.
Mel: There’s a mind–gut connection. So much research now shows a close link between what happens in our gut and what happens in our brain.
There are some good books, none of whose names I can remember. Research over the last 20 years has shown a strong connection between the mind, brain and gut. If you’re interested, do some research and learn more, but I believe you should listen to your instinct.
We all have an instinct, like a sixth sense, so pay attention. You might call it your spidey senses or the tingles on the back of your neck. In my experience, they’re not usually wrong.
James: Thanks again for listening to Graduate Theory. Please consider subscribing to the Graduate Theory newsletter. It’s the first link in the description. You’ll get an email straight to your inbox every week with a summary and my takeaways from that week’s episode. Thanks again, have a great week and we’ll see you next time.