This transcript has been edited for clarity and checked against the available source transcript and recording. Filler, false starts, and obvious transcription errors have been corrected without changing the speaker’s meaning.
Jack: That sucks. It’s no way to live, because you’re wasting five out of seven days—about 71% of your life. How have we let that become normal?
Intro#
James: Hello and welcome to Graduate Theory. Today’s guest is the founder and CEO of Golden Hour, a lifestyle-design brand that helps people chase an uncommon life. He’s also a blue belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Please welcome Jack Boxer. I’m looking forward to our conversation and keen to explore the origin of Utopia, Golden Hour and your other work.
Jack’s Origin Story#
James: When did you first have the idea to pursue this kind of life?
Jack: We have to go back to 2017, when I left high school and moved from Port Lincoln to Adelaide for university. I always assumed I’d get one of the few jobs boys are told about at school: physiotherapist, teacher, tradie or something similar, earning $50,000 or $60,000 a year.
That was simply what work meant. I started a Bachelor of Human Movement, but after one semester realised it wasn’t for me and changed to a Bachelor of Business Property. That led to a job in a real-estate office.
I saw the money real-estate agents could make and thought I might do that. One day, the agent I worked for gave me two books from his desk and suggested I read them. One was Maximum Achievement by Brian Tracy. Reading it changed my life—corny as that sounds—because it changed how I thought about success. It taught me that success begins in the mind: how you see yourself and what you believe you can accomplish shape what you will accomplish.
I’d always thought you worked five days, got a weekend and lived like everyone around you. The book opened my eyes to how much more is available. It’s up to us to seek out those ideas and ways of thinking. If you believe you can do wild, ambitious things, you can; you need to know they’re possible.
The book opened my mind to different opportunities and ways of living, including that it isn’t actually that hard to make substantial money and support everyone around you. It made me question what I was doing and ask whether it was truly what I wanted.
I was becoming uncomfortable in real estate and recognised that it wasn’t for me. I saw many grey areas in the industry, which felt dirty. I wanted to be honest and have a clear conscience, not be involved in grey-area practices.
I clearly remember sitting in my car on the side of an Adelaide road as rain poured down, bawling my eyes out because I didn’t know what to do with my life. I was beside myself, speaking to Mum on the phone.
I decided to move home to Port Lincoln. Before leaving Adelaide, I began seeing a life coach. We had a few sessions to identify my interests and what I could do with my life, and developed the idea of sharing those interests online.
That’s when I started Golden Hour’s main Instagram page, @itsgoldenhr. I tried to build an audience around my interests because I knew money followed attention and that I would need attention to make money.
I decided to build the audience first and determine how to monetise it later. I focused on Golden Hour’s Instagram for a year and grew it to roughly 10,000 followers, initially keeping it completely secret from family and friends. Then I told everyone, sold a few pieces of clothing and began considering monetisation. I wanted to create a personal membership but knew my personal brand wasn’t yet strong enough, so I designed a membership around what I’d learnt about personal development and self-help—everything that could help others discover that life can be enjoyable.
You can make money doing what you love. I assembled the resources that now make up Utopia, a large archive of personal-development content.
James: I have many questions about that journey. You said the first book on the table was Maximum Achievement. Do you remember the second?
Jack: I can’t remember. Imagine if I’d chosen the other book! I remember looking at it and thinking it looked good because it had a good cover. I think the agent made a comment about Maximum Achievement that persuaded me to choose it.
Jack: I don’t know whether I’d be doing this work if I hadn’t read that book. Something happens and changes your life’s entire course. It may sound strange to call it fate, but moments like that make you question what’s going on.
Maximum Achievement Today#
James: The book had an incredible impact. Do you continue to apply specific lessons from it today, or was its value mainly the paradigm shift that opened your eyes to other possibilities?
Jack: Initially, the main idea was to see yourself as successful, tell yourself you can succeed and picture it mentally before it becomes reality. The book also prompted me to visualise each morning.
I thought about what I wanted in life, what I wanted to accomplish, the house I wanted and supporting my family. I began seeing myself as successful. They describe it as the law of attraction in The Secret.
If you believe something, can picture it and work hard for it, it will happen. This was the first book that opened my mind to that. I’d never connected success with mindset; I thought you simply put eight hours into a job and received an hourly wage. It was mainly a paradigm shift. I’ve read the entire book twice and revisited sections since. I don’t know whether it would have the same effect if I first read it now, but at that time it completely changed my life.
James: I think I’ve listened to it once. Brian Tracy is an impressive author with plenty of good material. I recently listened to something of his called The Psychology of Achievement, I think.
It was on Audible and may also be a physical book. I think it covers some of the theory behind Maximum Achievement. Listening in the car, I was struck by how incredible the material was and how simply he explained it.
Jack: He’s a good author. He also wrote Eat That Frog!, didn’t he? I haven’t read the book, but that principle is significant. I need to read more of his work.
James: Thanks for listening to this episode of Graduate Theory. If you haven’t already subscribed to the Graduate Theory newsletter, you can do so through the link in the show notes. The newsletter comes out every Tuesday morning with my thoughts and lessons from each episode.
But without further ado, let’s get back into it.
Jack’s Current Reading Habit#
James: He’s very good. Is reading still something you spend a great deal of time doing? As you mentioned, Utopia includes books and other material.
Jack: I read that book in 2018 and then read avidly for about an hour every day—half an hour each morning and evening. In 2020, I stopped for a period, although I can’t remember why. I resumed in 2021, reading an hour a day and burning through books.
I love reading now. When I became serious about Utopia around February or March this year, however, I told myself to focus solely on it. I’d had a detailed daily routine: exercise, write down ten ideas, take a cold shower, make coffee and so on. I decided to remove everything and focus on Utopia. You often see graphs showing that multitasking produces many mediocre results, while focusing on one thing combines all that effort into one strong result.
I eliminated reading too, which was probably unwise. I’ve started again and currently read for about half an hour every second day. Once the current hectic phase of building Utopia passes, I’ll read more. When you’re building something new, the sheer number of small tasks that appear can be overwhelming. But I definitely love reading, particularly self-help, personal development and finance. I can see those books behind the camera now. They interest me.
James: It’s important to keep your mind engaged with that kind of content, whether through reading or another format. In 2020, I set a goal to read or listen to 52 books. I got through many, but eventually began reading for its own sake rather than choosing each book for a reason and a specific lesson. I’d listen while driving, let the book become background noise, then count it as complete.
Jack: It’s reading for accomplishment rather than understanding. I’ve done that too: “Look at all these books I read.” But can you explain what was in them? I used to read without highlighting anything. I don’t know whether you highlight or dog-ear pages, but I simply read and finished each book. A couple of months later, I’d need to read it again because there was no way to remember everything.
Now I highlight and dog-ear pages. When I revisit a book, I can go directly to its best sections, which makes the information much easier to recall.
James: That’s a good approach. You read these books intending them to have an impact—learning how to do something so you can act on it. If they have no impact, you need to reconsider what you’re doing.
Jack: I’ve heard Tim Ferriss say that you should read for just-in-time information, not just-in-case information. Just-in-case means reading constantly and perhaps remembering something when a problem arises. Just-in-time means encountering a problem and then reading about its solution. I’ve heard Shaan Puri discuss that too. It’s an interesting idea because I definitely read just in case.
James: That’s a useful way of thinking about it.
How Jack Thinks about Upskilling#
James: I also want to discuss upskilling more generally, particularly your decision to see a life coach. What led you to pursue that?
Jack: That was Mum’s idea. I was having a proper breakdown and couldn’t put my youth into perspective. I was only about 20, in the first fifth of my life.
I thought my life was over because I didn’t know what to do. Mum is the best and is very good at calming me down and asking, “What’s the next step? What can we do from here?” She suggested finding someone who could help.
People do this professionally: they help you determine what work you want. I’d never considered it and initially resisted seeing a life coach because I couldn’t see the benefit.
Mum bought me a session anyway. The coach and I got along well. He wasn’t trying to sell a particular path; he simply listened, which I think is most of the value.
After the first session, he did the work and returned with many options. He pointed out things I thought I knew but hadn’t really considered, asking, “If you’re telling me this, why are you doing that?”
The obvious answer would suddenly become clear. He also made me write down about 25 options. The biggest lesson was that when you aren’t sure about something, sit down and think about it. We rarely do that.
Set a timer for half an hour, make an iced coffee, put your phone out of reach, and sit with pen and paper. Write down what you’re thinking and you’ll develop solutions to your problems.
That’s been my most valuable technique for anything causing me mental distress over the past two years: think about it. Agonising over something you haven’t properly considered is nonsensical.
If you’ve sat down and thought but still lack a solution, you’ve done the work and can recognise that it’s a difficult problem. If you haven’t, you can’t complain. A solution may not appear in the first session, but if you consistently consider the problem and record your thoughts each day, progress follows.
Review the previous day’s thoughts and add to them. You’ll develop solutions, discover what you want from life and understand what makes you happy. You simply have to invest the time to work it out.
That was one of the life coach’s major lessons.
James: I agree. The brain is an interesting and powerful thing.
Facing Challenges and Courage#
James: People can face a challenge without considering any solutions. They simply say, “I have this problem,” accept that it exists and let it persist forever instead of asking how to fix it.
Jack: That’s when you see people complain: “I hate my job.” Do something about it. There are plenty of jobs available. Sit down and think. When someone says, “I don’t know what I’ll do,” they’re identifying exactly what they need to consider.
Most people don’t want to put in the work to improve their lives or leave the discomfort of a bad job. To quote Tim Ferriss, most people prefer unhappiness over uncertainty. I understand that, but you don’t want to remain unhappy.
James: Perhaps changing jobs could make you more unhappy, but testing that possibility is still better than accepting that things aren’t going well.
Jack: Exactly. You don’t want to reach a later stage of life and wonder, “What if I’d taken that chance and it had turned out brilliantly?” The thought of that regret gives me a feeling in my stomach. You see older people dismiss what you’re doing as unlikely to work, despite never trying anything themselves. Now they’re bitter because they no longer have the energy. I don’t want that feeling.
James: Have you read The Alchemist? It’s a popular novel with interesting lessons. The shepherd in the story begins working for a shop owner who has run his business for many years.
The owner complains that he never made what I think is the Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca. He says the idea of going there is what keeps him going; imagining it is better than actually making the trip, because his fantasy keeps him happy.
For many people, the idea of having a good job or another kind of life is a pleasant fantasy. Trying to realise it would involve too much pain, so accepting the current situation is easier.
Jack: You probably know people in your family or life who do work they wouldn’t touch if they weren’t paid. That’s no way to live.
You want work that you’d still do without being paid because it genuinely interests you. I don’t understand settling for a job that makes you unhappy, where Sunday arrives and you think, “Fuck, I have to work tomorrow.”
You’re sitting with your family when the thought of work intrudes. That sucks. It’s no way to live, because you’re wasting five out of seven days—about 71% of your life. How have we let that become normal for most people?
James: I agree. When someone pursues a passion, others sometimes treat it as a bad or crazy choice. Perhaps they’re jealous that someone else can do it.
Jack: There’s a quote: “The thought of your success heightens the feeling of stagnation in others.” Nobody wants to feel left behind. If people aren’t doing anything with their lives and see you trying to improve yours, it can make them feel bad.
They may try to bring you back to their level so you feel the same. It isn’t a good trait, but we all have it to some degree.
How Jack learnt about building a business#
James: You’re building an Instagram page, Utopia and many other things. How do you upskill and learn to do everything required to build a business from scratch? There isn’t much overlap with real estate, so much of this is new to you.
Jack: Now that we have the internet, there’s no excuse not to build what you want. If you don’t know how to do something, search YouTube or Google; thousands of articles are available.
Someone has asked almost every obscure question you can imagine, and you’ll find an answer. That’s what I’ve discovered with website design and similar work. Whatever problem you encounter, the internet probably offers a solution and a wealth of free content.
I’ve considered hiring people to run social media, design the website or manage apparel. Before doing that, I want to become capable and really good at each task so I can tell whether someone else is doing a good job. I also value knowing how things work.
I used to hate the discomfort of being a beginner and looking foolish. Through listening to every episode of Joe Rogan’s podcast, I’ve learnt that you must be willing to be a beginner and a fool if you want to become a master. You can’t become good without first being bad, so I’ve accepted that reality.
That’s how you improve. Let yourself be a fool and laugh at your mistakes. I’ve made countless mistakes with Instagram, the website and everything else. Nobody starts out good; everyone starts out badly, which is fine. You improve, and consistency is one of the principles I try to live by.
Even when you see no results, remain consistent. When learning a new skill, you will be bad and won’t transform overnight, but if you keep showing up, learning and trying, you’ll improve.
The formula is simple: consistent, focused effort makes you better. It also comes back to enjoying the process. Learn what you want to learn and you’ll love doing it.
James: Everyone starts from nothing in some sense. That’s important to remember when beginning something new.
Jack: Brazilian jiu-jitsu makes that obvious. As a beginner, you get strangled and squashed. You’re pinned beneath a massive person who throws your ideas about who you are out the window.
You thought you were a big, tough man who knew everything, but this person has your arm wrapped around your head, sits on you and could do whatever he wanted. You’d be dead in a real fight.
It’s incredibly humbling and demonstrates that you must be a fool before becoming a master. Starting a martial art is an excellent ego check. It makes you realise you’re not all you say you are, which is good for your brain and for you.
James: I’ve heard very good things about martial arts and have considered joining for a while. It could be on the cards.
Jack: It’s great fun and hard exercise while teaching you to defend yourself. That’s what I love about it: you’re exhausted and have also learnt a useful skill.
James: What inspired you to start?
Jack: Mostly Joe Rogan. Even if the influence was subconscious, listening to him discuss jiu-jitsu’s benefits—particularly how it humbles you—definitely contributed. I had, and still have, an ego problem.
It’s better now because I’m aware of it and can recognise when my ego is acting. In jiu-jitsu, if your ego makes you try to overpower or submit someone more skilled, you’ll be humbled quickly.
He will submit you and make it brutal if your ego pushes you too hard. I started to check my ego, get fit, learn self-defence and feel more comfortable.
I used to become scared if someone confronted me while I was walking with a girlfriend or at a nightclub, because I didn’t know what to do. Now I’m comfortable knowing that I can respond if something happens. After six months of jiu-jitsu, you’ll probably be fine against an untrained person of the same size.
That’s the feeling I wanted.
Jack: You’d love it. It’s probably the best martial art for training hard. When grappling, you can go almost 100% without being knocked out. In boxing, going 100% could knock you out and prevent you from training for a month.
Jiu-jitsu lets you simulate an actual fight, tap out and immediately go again.
James: You’ve convinced me.
Jack’s Mission#
James: When you left real estate, the world opened up and you had to decide what came next. Your current work with Utopia and Golden Hour clearly has an underlying mission. How would you describe what you want to see in the world?
Jack: The easiest description of Utopia is a gym membership for your mind and lifestyle. Just as you might join F45 or 24 Fit, this membership helps you look after your brain, your future and the lifestyle you lead.
Just as you care for your body, you should care for your future and success. As we discussed, many people are unhappy.
Jack: I don’t think it’s their fault. Schools and universities teach from a pre-internet perspective, when people couldn’t easily share ideas through YouTube, social media or blogs and pursuing an interest was much harder.
The distribution methods didn’t exist. Now YouTube and social media provide free distribution, while a website or blog may cost only $10 a month. There are many ways to put your ideas into the world.
Utopia’s mentor section exposes people to those who have used the internet to share ideas and create income around their interests. Their examples are blueprints for how all of us can live and show that we can do the same.
Many people are unhappy because of how they’re raised. This isn’t a criticism, but you may see four girls from the same friendship group all enter nursing despite being very different people. It would be an extraordinary coincidence if nursing were each person’s life passion. People often choose jobs and lives because their friends do, or because school says they’re good choices.
They end up resentful and unhappy about going to work. I want to show people they don’t have to live that way. That’s why Utopia includes investing tools, tips and investors to follow: passive income can help you escape the rat race.
Passive income lets you spend time doing what you love. Automating some income frees you to pursue your interests. Utopia’s books and podcasts form the learning stage, teaching you to start a business, become healthier and think better. Utopia is an archive of resources to help you become a better person and live a better life.
It helps you build a life you want to live and find exciting. People may respond, “I’m happy. I’m fine,” but when they go home and lie in bed, they have to answer honestly for themselves.
Everyone must ask, “Do I really enjoy my life?” They may not tell you, but they know the answer. I want more people to enjoy their lives. That’s why Utopia uses a pay-what-you-want model: I didn’t want price to be a barrier.
I want the material to help and to spread ideas that the news, schools and universities don’t promote. There are different ways to learn and successful people who have followed them.
Investing isn’t that difficult once you know what to do. Utopia offers investing role models and tools to educate you and support better decisions. It also includes “life hacks”: 30 ways to upgrade your life.
The content is varied, but I believe that if you gave Utopia to a 20-year-old who knew none of this and loaded the information into them, they would be okay and build a life they enjoy.
James: It’s inspiring. You’re tackling the important problem of people doing work that doesn’t fulfil them at all. That’s no way to live. I appreciate the pricing model, which lets anyone access the material, and how easy you’ve made the lessons to digest.
Jack: The pricing model relies on people’s goodwill. Squarespace, which I use to run the membership, lets you set a fixed price or make access free. I wanted to put the power in people’s hands, so access is free and members choose their price once inside. That may be better because people can first explore, see what is valuable and understand how it can help.
They can then judge its value. I’m grateful to everyone who has supported it; it is designed as a paid membership. I want to retain pay-what-you-want because a fixed price might stop people from even looking. If you can’t afford it or don’t find it valuable, that’s fine. I believe most people aren’t free riders and will choose a fair price when they see value.
James: I hope it goes well. What you’ve created is valuable. I have a couple more questions before we wrap up.
Who Inspires Jack#
James: Who inspires you? Is it someone famous such as Joe Rogan, or people closer to you and your network? Whom do you look up to?
Jack: I’ve posted often that Joe Rogan is one of the world’s best role models for men. People who don’t listen to his podcast will criticise that view, but I believe it completely. He’s a healthy, kind person who gives himself challenges every day.
He seeks happiness and has been a major influence in my life over the past couple of years. I listen to every podcast episode. The other answer is clichéd but true: Mum and Dad. They give my sister and me everything and aren’t ordinary parents.
They’re extremely supportive, even when that support comes at the expense of their own future. They believe in me and trust that I know what I’m doing. I need this work to succeed for them, and I’m going to give back.
I’ve decided there is no alternative: it will work, and I’ll return tenfold what they’ve given me. Those are my main inspirations.
James: That’s a wonderful way to give back to your parents.
Jack: They’re the best. I know some people have bad parents, so having good ones is a blessing.
Jack’s Advice for Graduates#
James: I have one final question, which I ask every guest. If you were graduating from university this year, what advice would you give your younger self?
Jack: Sit down and double-check your assumptions about what you want from life. After investing years at university and earning a degree, many people feel obliged to pursue that field. Even two and a half years into the degree, they may already know they don’t want that work.
They treat the time and money as sunk costs that force them to get the corresponding job. Check your assumptions, because you don’t want to become trapped in a life you don’t enjoy. You get only one life, so don’t let yourself remain stuck doing something you don’t fully enjoy.
Ask yourself whether you’d do the work without being paid, or even if you had to pay to do it. A few months of uncertainty and feeling that you wasted your university years is worthwhile if it leads to a happy life. That’s far better than cruising into a job that’s merely a job.
James: That’s excellent advice. I’d add: read Maximum Achievement.
Jack: Yes. I’ll show everyone what it looks like.
James: There we go. Perfect.
Connect with Jack#
James: Thanks for sharing your story, Jack. It’s been a great conversation, and your next few months and years sound exciting. Before we wrap up, where can people learn more about you and your work?
Jack: Most of my presence is on Instagram. Golden Hour is @itsgoldenhr, Utopia is @utopialearning, and my personal account is @jboxer_; it’s linked from those pages. The website is goldenhr.com.au.
There you’ll find my blog, our weekly newsletter, Instagram activity and apparel. Utopia’s website is utopialearning.com.au; visit it, look around and create an account.
The sites include contact details for any questions. We’ve also been posting on TikTok: Utopia is @utopialearning, Golden Hour is @goldenhrofficial, and I think my account is @jackboxer3, although I don’t post there. Instagram is the main place to find me.
James: Thanks for coming on the show, Jack.
Jack: Thanks for having me, James.
Outro#
James: Thanks for listening to this episode. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. To receive my takeaways and what I learnt from this episode, please go to GraduateTheory.com/subscribe. You’ll receive my takeaways and information about each episode straight in your inbox.
Thanks again for listening. We’re looking forward to seeing you next week.